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Predators & Furbearers This forum is for discussion on predator hunting and trapping, which includes: Bobcat, Coyote, Fox, and the Skunk - including discussions of fur-bearing species, such as: Badger, Beaver, Muskrat, Otter, Raccoon, Ring-tail, Coatimundi, Weasel, and even the Wolf.

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  #21  
Old 02-05-2013, 11:25 AM
HEtrapper HEtrapper is offline
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Also agree that the sale is too early. There is a sale up in Kingman March 9th that should be pretty good also. I think all sales should be in March so everyone can take all of their fur there at once.
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  #22  
Old 02-05-2013, 11:40 AM
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tomgobbler- You can talk directly to me. I am the one who made the statement and surely wont get offended by answering questions pertaining to it.

So let me get this straight. Your reasoning is since the ATA sale is beginning of Feb you feel you are forced to take unprime bobcats in November because it takes you that long to process your fur to be ready for sale. No offense, but you have other options.

I agree the best months to harvest bobcats is January and February, but the bobcats I sold were taken in December and I averaged $477. If I had waited until Feb to take those bobcats I might have averaged higher, who knows? You know bobcat trapping well enough to know that in Feb a trapper is also possibly loosing money on sow bellied females he traps that have either already given birth or are on the verge of it. Ruined belly fur will drop your price as fast as shot-haired cats taken early in the season.

AZG&F sets the trapping season to begin November. One could contend that under the law if he is trapping in November he is doing exactly what the law permits and AZG&F expects him to do. I would counter with the idea that AZG&F begins the trapping season in Nov because at higher elevations the bobcats are prime in November. Just because its prime there doesn't mean its a free-for-all throughout the state. It's logical that our trapping season spans 7000'+ down to the lower deserts 2000' and trappers are expected to use good judgement in their take. AZG&F is aware that many trappers use bad judgement and there was proposed regulations changes to SUBTRACT 1 month off the front of the trapping season in 2013-2014 to counter this. I had a number of correspondences with the Game and Fish biologist who heads up the trapping division of G&F and shortening the bobcat season is 1 way of fixing a potential problem in our state's future with anti-trappers. It's an easy fix because many trappers take bobcats in the lower deserts too early. G&F could fix it by dividing up the state and permitting trapping to begin at one time in one area and another time in another but that's a ridiculous expectation and most hunters and trappers want less government not more.

You voice that one of the reasons trappers take fur early is due to not being able to process their fur in time for the Globe sale. While that might be the reason for 2-3 trappers out of 350 of our registered trappers the honest reason is the drive to get the bobcats first. A trapper would rather put up a $100 pieces of fur than wait until it reaches $450 and possibly loose it to another trapper. Basically they run through the orchard and pick the low hanging fruit before its ripe because they don't want anyone else to get it. It's greed. Plain and simple, no matter how you slice it.

Now to address the ATA concern, which I find a valid point. The ATA's sale is 3/4ths of the way through the season and causes problems with trappers who can not get fur prepped quick enough to get it to the same in good shape. I can have bobcat pelt skinned, fleshed, and stretched, and dried in probably a week and a half using a fan. I'd prefer to have it on a stretcher for a month if possible. For the past few years I have taken all my pelts that could not make it to the ATA sale and sold them to a fur buyer in Globe (Dennis Kubesh- Globe Hide and Fur). Let me know if you want his number. Mind you I understand it's not an auction situation and I don't expect to get top dollar prices like at the ATA sale. I go into it knowing this and am satisfied with the prices I get. I also have a few other options if selling them to Globe Hide and Fur isn't to my liking. I could ship the fur to NAFA for one of their multiple yearly sales. I could look into the Fallon, Nevada sale, the New Mexico sale. I could speak to Nathan at Mongomery Fur in Utah and see if he is coming down into AZ in the next few months. He is a fair fur buyer. Another option, which is new this year is another Arizona based, private fur sale. The Briarpatch Bobcat Fur Sale in Kingman, AZ is March 9th I believe. It's an auction based sale like the ATA and occurs after our season has ended. I understand they are currently at 300-350 or so pelts and should ramp up in the coming weeks. This sale is a zero commission sale. You pay $20 to get in the door and that's it.

There are over a dozen fur sales across the United States. All the state sales are scheduled to not be on the same date as another sale on purpose. It pushes the ATA sale early, which isn't a bad thing in all respects. Our sale has better profits for sellers last year than the Fallon, Nevada sale, which is known as the biggest and most prestigious bobcat sale in the US. Our sale is early and many times takes a roll in setting the tone of the western bobcats.

I know you trapped Southern AZ last season and did well. I don't know what months you trapped but suspect, based on your response here, you started in November.

Just remember, if we loose part of our trapping season in the future one of the main reasons is because of greedy people taking lower desert bobcats in November. Don't tell me its not going to happen. Next year you will be required to turn in the lower jaw of all the bobcats you want a CITES tag for. Things are changing with trapping for the worse in AZ in the near future and part of the problem is greedy trappers that can not see beyond the short term.

It's unfortunate but when money, big money, enters an activity/sport/hobby, priorities get screwed up and the almighty dollar takes charge. That's my 2 cents and its not based on just my opinion.
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  #23  
Old 02-05-2013, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HEtrapper View Post
Also agree that the sale is too early. There is a sale up in Kingman March 9th that should be pretty good also. I think all sales should be in March so everyone can take all of their fur there at once.
Fur buyers can't attend all the sales if they are all in March. The buyers have a circuit they travel around the Western US so they can hit each sale.
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  #24  
Old 02-05-2013, 01:30 PM
HEtrapper HEtrapper is offline
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They could just as easily spread the sales out one month later in the year and let the buyers know. This would mean for the most part better fur in the sales from the cats caught in February, help stop people from wanting to kill every bobcat they see in November, and it would also mean more furs at the sales because of having the full season to trap. Benefit for everyone.
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  #25  
Old 02-05-2013, 01:58 PM
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I see your reasoning but suspect there are other factors at work we do not know about that keep such a logical and easy solution from happening.

You have to remember, the goal of the ATA is to make money at this fur sale (5% commission). They use it to fund their organization and help trappers. If they could easily move their sale to after the season I am sure they'd do it.

This is a good question. I will ask last years ATA president why they choose to have it when they do.
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  #26  
Old 02-05-2013, 02:09 PM
tomgobbler tomgobbler is offline
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i wasnt directing any remarkes to anyone, you just stated that people go after nov cats as early as they can.... and i just ment that one reason for this is the early date of the auction. i know some that feel that they have to, to get everything done and ready for that sale. but just for your info i am not one of them, I dont go after nov cats. i started in jan last year and went to the end of trapping season, ( only trapping about 6 weeks or so) and no i dont go to the auction. i started jan 10th this year and will go for another 2 weeks or so.... and so no i dont go for early cats, i go for the prime ones.
DG, - i ment bobcat season goes until march 31.... just becasue trapping season is over doesnt mean you cant still go after them calling or what ever... so thats what i ment by people are still putting cats up until the end of march....
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  #27  
Old 02-05-2013, 02:30 PM
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Oh, my mistake then. I thought you did based on your line of comments. I commend you for waiting until they're prime.
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  #28  
Old 02-05-2013, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomgobbler View Post
DG, - i ment bobcat season goes until march 31.... just becasue trapping season is over doesnt mean you cant still go after them calling or what ever... so thats what i ment by people are still putting cats up until the end of march....
AAAHAHHHHHHHHh ha ha ha ha sorry, ive still got trapping on the brain! yeah . . . totally didnt even think about the "calling" part of the end of the season.



Scott, Relax a little man! you are wound tighter than a two dollar watch. We all understand that most guys should wait until at least mid Dec to really start trapping. Or at least, like myself, get up above 6000 ft. There is a slight break down in the information on pelt condition for most of these new guys coming into trapping. I understand where they come from wanting to get their first cat. And with prices driving the start point so to speak, yeah they start early. Is it greed? or is it them trying to make a little money? is that the definition of greed? Of is it simply their taking advantage of the season allowing them the most opportunity to catch the most cats they can in the limited time available? Lets try something here, instead of jumping all over the guys (most of us have been on the site for a WHILE) here for even mentioning trapping in November, and look at it from their prospective. Outside of that, how do you know all the guys are trapping the desert in November? you dont, its a complete assumption based on the fact that most of the new guys live in and around the phoenix area. Okay, Ill give you that one cause lots of guys do in fact live around phoenix. Lets take the time to educate them on the difference in the fur, and what it means to really let it prime up. And I dont mean, HEY WHY THE HECK ARE YOU TRAPPING IN NOVEMBER? THEY AINT WORTH ANYTHING! same as the guys that shoot a bobcat in Aug - maybe its their first one. Rather, lets take the time to show them the difference. Show them all the levels of fur, from early (not prime), priming, prime, and late. and relate that to the prices that they might expect to get at sale. . . . . educate them in management of the fur itself and the population. some guys dont care, and dont want to learn. you will never get everyone on board with how we (both of us and several other guys) view the fur and the management of the harvest, releasing small bobcats (kittens, etc.) and sow belly females.

sorry for the rambling along. let just remember that for the most part, us trappers are on the same side. just like hunters. now if we can only get all sportsman to back each other up no matter what you like to do, be it, archery hunt, rifle hunt, fair chase hunt, or high fence, foot hold trap, cage trap, use snares, spin fish, fly fish, noodle, net, WHATEVER!

UNITED WE STAND - Divided we FALL
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Last edited by DesertGhost; 02-05-2013 at 03:58 PM..
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  #29  
Old 02-05-2013, 03:57 PM
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Sniper Sniper is offline
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Question on the lower jaw....I have a cat here that I may not sell this year, and when it comes to next years auction, will I not be able to sell the cat because I no longer have the lower jaw? Should I go buy an export tag for it now just in case?
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  #30  
Old 02-05-2013, 04:01 PM
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Sniper, why would you not want to / be able to get the cat to sale this year? If you dont think you can get it put up in time, lets hook up sometime this weekend. Either we can work the cat together, or I can get it put up for you and take to the March 9th sale in Kingman for you. Im already going to be headed up there with several other guys furs as well. Let me know. Check your pms.
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